Our text verse is a Visit the Amazing. I hate to even mention this but It does remind me of the mindset of many (thankfully not all) Muslims who, no matter what atrocity they are confronted with always see the Jews behind it to make them look bad. Salvation through the Church IS salvation through Christ, not salvation through Benedict XVI or John Paul II. That is a relationship of some form If you cant immediately see that and make amends then no one, knowing that you are capable of this, should engage you in debate or discussions of any kind. Dont you lose under Godwins Law as soon as you say that Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world? Its not squabbling. Ray, As I already stated, I assumed the url was their doing, because any able-minded, reasonable person would firgure that a url naturally belongs to the site it displays. Speaking of a stubborn man, He said: If he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen (Matt. re: Gwens differentiation between disciples +/- apostles who forgive: there is a movement within protestantism that we confess our sins to one another and receive forgiveness. Whose fruit is this squabbling between Jimmy and James? I wont be shoved aside by such a tactic. Shame on me for being reasonable though. Where was the big long post by Jimmy Akin condemning this fellow? Mary is correct that if you had posted something specific, it would be easy to copy and paste, just as Ive done with your comments. Your comment is interesting, you completely chastise Jimmy Akin for not debating James White and yet this is the same guy who refuses to debate Robert Sungenis anymore inspite of the repeated requests from Robert Sungenis. I do not post freely in comboxes. If strong language to rebuke a sinner is uncharitable, we have a little problem here. I dont have to post a point-by-point case on James Whites innocence in the Beckwith debate because that has absolutely nothing to do with Jimmy Akin and 20 Roman Catholic fanbois getting their toes stepped on via a couple of pictures that accurately display their childish, hypocritical attitudes. Carebear, comments like: . Im ignoring the facts The Pharisees were definitely into winning, but here they pulled a loser because they didnt get the kingdom concept, that its about the heart, not the housing, be it political, institutional, or otherwise. I know you dont care, I can see that because you see pointing out the error of someone as slander. I cant get worked up over it, although Id like to suggest they all cut it out. As Zack was pastoring in the summer 2012, he was awakened to the abortion holocaust and has never been the same since. We deserve it! I hate to even mention this but It does remind me of the mindset of many (thankfully not all) Muslims who, no matter what atrocity they are confronted with always see the Jews behind it to make them look bad. I am half-beginning to think that we do in fact deserve it. About But as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and Ive now seen two thousand very ugly words from James White. The point I was attempting to make earlier in this thread (since the website was again brought up as an issue) with my Disciples of James White Conspiracy Theory is that it is just as ridiculous as the Catholic Answers/Jimmy Akin/Catholic Church Conspiracy Theory.. I cannot relate to you the ugliness that came out of that event. Please correct my misunderstandings of this argument. Final Dividing Line of 2022. I am not easily shocked. I pretty much agree with My Cats Name is Lily (maybe Methodist minds think alike?when did that start?). There phone # is (951) 242-4988. You are the reason those pictures are hilarious. I found your posts quite interesting, even though by now Im mostly reading, God forgive me, for the train wreck. White is the director of Alpha What mindset? By the way, what WAS the purpose of White posting those pictures???? like this. Wouldnt they then be more intruiged to find out more about him, seeing as you deem him important enough to name your apologetics website after him? Sola Scriptura is a central tenet of most of Protestant Christianity due to the fact that all operating Protestant doctrines must conform to its principles. James White, February 13, 2023, Musings, Personal, Provisionism, Road Trip, Roman Catholicism, , Thomism Got started a little late so we didn't go a full hour but covered some "Tweet theology," including responding to Leighton Flowers and looking at some Thomas stuff. We deserve it! As somebody earlier mentioned it is the accusing party that must prove their case! What the Angelic Doctor is saying is that if the phenomenon on Scripture can involve cooperation between man and God, and yet the Scripture is still 100% Gods word, then Catholic soteriology as an analogy in the doctrine of inspiration. Establishing an Ancient Date 1. evangelists whom I wont name, but will (Sorry for the awkward phrasing, I wanted to tweak it to be more parallel.) Tech ID:DI_471115 Begging the question of when you proved that such a thing was true. He always claimed that eschatology wasn't his strong suit, but he still went at Ken Gentry once in a back forth online discussion about Amill vs. Postmill. Wow, Thomas Aquinas? Those are the remarks of a troll. As you can see in the picture above, both the symbols of alpha and omega have beautifully popped out against the circular lines, making the tattoo look like an optical illusion. 500 posts and still no one has interacted with Dr. Whites assertions. . Lisa, Just who is the accuser here, exactly??? Slander is saying something not true, so perhaps you should consider what exactly youre saying before you go shooting your keyboard off. I remember the picture Dave Armstrong put up a while back, a caricature of James White with blood running down his face, it was pretty disgusting and more personal. Alpha omega tattoos are commonly sported by men, but that does not mean women cannot get these tattoos. Thats why they are ironic and funny. Those to Whom they personally Handed down they Faith and their Authority? This is the same type of answer Dr. Beckwith was giving in his interview with Koukl. My bad for thinking Elivs is dead, the Loch Ness Monster is a fairlytale, and that James White and co. didnt buy up that domain name and redirect it to Catholic Answers. Dont make the mistake of assuming I hold the same low standard as you. Thats a weak objection. Something to keep his mind occupied from the horror. So I ended up feeling frustrated like I was not reaching my students because my best verses and salvos of logic went unused. I pray he will have success, but since there is no authority on the interpretation of the Koran, just what the individual imams preach, I dont know. I am the LORD" (Leviticus 19:28). Son, I say, thats a joke.. We deserve it as a badge of honor or a crown of glory and we should wear it with dignity and pride. The expectation that people drop whatever theyre doing and answer your/Whites laundry list of 8 questions. And that would seriously undermine the argument against the Church declaring things like papal infallibility, the immaculate conception, etc [9], White served as an elder of Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church in Phoenix, Arizona, from 1998 until 2018. When we apply these considerations to Scripture, we are able to see that canon (infallible) is a neccessary result of Gods freely chosen act of inspiration. In short, right here is where it is clearly established that canon is not a product of tradition, but a product of divine revelation. He purposely used these terms to refer to those who share Akins opinion IN SPITE OF the fact that there are actually PROTESTANTS who have voiced similar opinions about James White and share the same disgust over Whites behaviour. I mean, what do you tell people who stumble onto the site looking for theological answers who have never heard of James White? Contact. The Revelation of Zechariah That is why Inocencio wants to buy his action figure with a Cowboy hat! Again, I ask you, how do you know that the books that are in the bible belong there? Could It Get Any Loonier? Are you willing to put an equally harsh light on the historic abuses of Protestants? It is not conducive, constructive, or Christian. What is the key issue? Vivat Christi. 1) We have a rule here about not using some type of name when posting. So, in the interest of being extremely clear and explicit: I assume that the Westminster Catechism and its related system of beliefs is true, therefore in my argument revelation is not defined by me, but by the Protestant Churches who uphold said Catechism. We largely agree with Aquinas, in respect to the valuable role of reason in serving as the trusted starting point for rational evaluation of truth claims. 8am to 5pm MST What really is the Gospel? Of course not. Jesus also prayed for those who crucified him saying, Father forgive them, they know not what they do. Does the vitriol of James White compare with the great injustice done Christ? Ill choose to not read Dr. Whites book at this time. Im not interested in those arguments, nor in the well-blasted trenches of apologetics warfare, which I have avoided throughout, thanks. Ignored the facts yourself by not taking into consideration the things James White has done Esau is the one with the consiracy theories. Thats the sum of it. And theres Paul, who says in 2 Cor, If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you, to some extentnot to put it too severely. I keep coming back to this thread to see whatll happen next, because it just gets crazier and crazier. Domain Name:JAMESRWHITE.ORG [14][15], White often engages in public debate, having participated in more than 170 public moderated debates,[16][17] covering topics such as Calvinism, Roman Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, Infant baptism[18] the King James Only movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, and atheism. Esau, So I wandered into a little restaurant/pub type place near my hotel in Sydney this afternoon to grab a bite to eat. Apologetics is the giving of a logical defense, yet Ive seen little of that. In fact, most laws are made-up in the most basic sense. Luther? This is indeed childish behavior. How does one handle the existing situation where different people/groups disagree on what books are a part of the Canon? As an audience, they are not required to recognize it as humor, merely a failed attempt. James White Teaches No I dont and I never did so Id appreciate it if youll write a recantation to that accusation. If he did, does that make it ok? Jesus, God graciously saved Zack at the age of 18 and hes been committed to serving the local church since day 1. Here is a compilation of some of the best alpha omega tattoos: Jamie has over 10 years experience as both a journalist and professional tattooist, working for some of the biggest brands in the UK. Thomas, Ill read it after the kids are in bed and dishes are done. At this point, I humbly submit that with reason and logic rendered irrelevant and useless to probe the mystery of God, we would have no applicable tools to interpret scripture either personally or otherwise. Go figure. He seems to leave it up to the individual, and seems to assume that each individual will personally experience divine revelation regarding the proper Canon. Foxfire, my mistake. So whos got the guts to step up and make the call next Tuesday? We deserve the ridicule of White like good children deserve cake. *salutes Mr. Spock* Ive always thought that Vulcans would make great Catholics. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, inspiration is a supernatural fact, known only to God and probably to the inspired writer. for Apologetics go to Catholic.com Those defending White had demonstrated more than I want to know about them. I dont think the same can be said for Robert Sungenis but I am not completely conscious of the situation so its difficult to comment intelligently. http://www.jamesrwhite.org now points at Whites siteSuspicious, eh? Dont make the mistake of assuming I hold the same low standard as you. We spent a lot of time analyzing why Don Imus was fired, but Sarah Silverman goes on, why some find Imus funny, and why some go ballistic when they hear him it has to do with what the Germans call reception geschichte how a performance act is received by various audiences, over time. Here are some But you the point. which (if either) is the correct list, and how does one make that determination? Maybe on his screen it looked smaller. I accept that the photos and captions were jokes. As director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, White also hosts a daily Dividing Line Podcast and radio show on the Alpha and Omega Ministries YouTube Channel. While the video lost some of the early audio portion, the Sermon Audio version is whole. and Omega Ministries, a presuppositional apologetics organization based in Same way you can think something is right and be wrong. I will, therefore, just urge you 1] to grow deeply in the love and truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, bearing Gods fruit in every field of your life. Pray that one day they accidently drop the filter. Or perhaps recalling a handful of protestant killers really does serve as proof that Romes killers werent so bad? * Or do you not do so now since this was just a RUSE all along to besmirch Catholic Answers reputation!? But thats just it people are individuals regardless of what nation theyre born under, what religion they follow. Is a Christian supposed to act so phooney as to tell that person who has just insulted your family: Its not the priest who forgives me in the Confessional, its Jesus. Jonathan, that last little tidbit is an argumentum ad populum and should be recanted. And thats not actually a compliment Id give to everyone on the home team, so to say. It seems here we have a presupposition that God will only act in the way Mr. White conjectures. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions. To whom was the Canon of Scripture divinely revealed? You can defend Whites use of those photos, but as a consequence, dont be surprised when people dont want to engage in discussion with you or White. Unsubstantiated? So a person who, with charity himself, points this out is fulfilling Christs teachings perfectly, in a profound way. Call him again Johnathan. While I dont wish to hurt your arguement against Esau, I wasnt refering to Catholics when I said enjoy the freakshow. Its a combox flame war, which means the stakes are remarkably low. Unfortunately, Jimmy Akin insisted on focusing on these issues and misdirect people way from the theological issues. It was nice not to have to run a words you cant say in 2021 in the US filter today as we were not live streaming on YouTube. Thats been refuted time and time again. It is good to be lumped in with the passionate people for once. Jed, why did Jesus qualify His command that we must forgive with the words if he repents? The original post goes to Whites moronic photoshops, which is all Ive focused on. Youll get that casuistry degree yet. I dont think Catholic answers likes JamesrWhite.org tied(or whatever you call it in this case) to their website. Likewise, if you use any statement or general observation, there will be an accusation that the surrounding context somehow excused the gaffe, meaning that one has to literally quote every single piece of the entire article, transcript, etc., in ones answer. To quote a great Spaniard: You keep using that word, I do not think you know what it means. Sorry to ruin yalls frenzy fest. sinner (Romans 3:19), and you believe the That might be what you see, but not everyone sees it that way. I admire your charity. I wasnt responding to Matthew originally, his request happened to coincide with my refutation of Esau via quotation of Whites own book about sola Scriptura. For my money, there is hardly a dimes worth of difference in approach among most of the sites Ive visited on both sides. CB: Showing that someone is not engaging in appropriate discussion methods is not taunting. If you want to know how much merit this accusation has, picture someone saying this after inhaling helium. Lordship Salvation and misrepresents the heart of the debate. There can be no excuse for this. That the pictures are offensive is completely immaterial to those few who come to his defense. Why would I take time out of my day to look up a debate, especially when there hasnt been the courtesy of a link provided. The first sentence relates to your secret, private revelation as to what you think I was saying. I, as a Catholic, rely on the authority of the Church, as vested in Peter by Jesus. White has responded on his blog to Jimmys post. Scandal (skandalon) something that gives offense or causes revulsion, that which arouses opposition; the cause of ruin or destruction (Isaiah 8:14; Romans 9:33; 1 Peter 2:8) Look at your initial comments in addition to the one above: So let us continue to pray for a reform of the reform and restore back to all things in Christ including a reverent Traditional Latin Mass and true teachings that not all faiths can lead to salvation, only the One True Church, the Catholic Church When you gulp down the unexamined assertions of any one-true-agent-of-God-on-earth organization, you will begin to stumble down a very dark and threatening path. Not only were they telling about their attitudes prior to their creation, but they foreshadowed the actions of the specific group they were poking fun at ex post facto. A new MP3 sermon from Alpha and Omega Ministries is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The Regime Continues to Promote the Culture of Death, Christian Nationalism, Ecclesia Subtitle: The Dividing Line 2022 Speaker: Dr. James White Broadcaster: Alpha and Omega Ministries Event: Sunday Service Date: 10/25/2022 Length . 7:10,11). Im not to apt to jump on the conspiracy train as you are. This is the point at which humor research enters. He answered: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, Love your neighbor as yourself. And who knows? Shane, The Assumption of Moses I did a Whois search and found out this info: This is the sort of thing that makes *us* queasy. Then again, maybe not surprising. [2] [3] He is the author of several books. It is regionally accredited and offers PhDs in religious studies and philosophy. His blog posts however are invective. Can you imagine if these had been doctored photos of German SS holding signs saying something like, Gas those who lack charity.? Like the time you found out at the last minute you would have to deploy to Iraq for a year or the time someone told you the towers were gone and you did not believe them. Uhh, foxfier, again..category error. Vols60, you are mis-characterizing the consensus. In truth the Church is too unique to prove herself unique. Your style is like cotton candy, only without all that painful grit. Esau, if he repents doesnt seem to require us to forgive those who do not repent. Dear All, Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM Shut em down now, Jimmy. By placing the beginning paragraph or two of the lead article of their monthly magazine, This Rock, on the very cover of the work, they draw your attention into reading the rest of the article. http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2004/10/forgiveness_rev.html nothing wrong with that, either Now; As far as Dr Beckwith having some moral superiority over Dr White on the issue of Charity: I think he lost that the minute he started impugning Dr Whites character and motives. It seems only fair, then, that just as you would like people to listen to you for your expertise in apologetics, so you owe it to me to listen to my expert, although necessarily brief, evaluation of your blog pictures which is what Jimmy asked to be the topic under Your people killed our people for hundreds of years, and you think our heartfelt disgust with those events is some kind of joke you can easily blow off by just uttering the words that nothing is really inherently wrong with your system, its all just in our head, just old prejudices. Lets try this again. The locus of discussion in this thread, properly speaking, is humor, not theology, per se, except as to how it applies to Dr. Whites attempt at humor in these pictures. Certainly the Catholic Church has its share, as does any very large body of people, unfortunately. Second, my apologies for not noticing there was more than one (now three?) In a pigs eye. It is my hope that Catholics and Protestants can converse without all the rancour that Ive seen since I started blogging in October 2006. I hope that we can all pray for James, his walk with the Lord, and that he would embrace his Roman Catholic brothers and sisters in the Lord. from Columbia Evangelical Seminary (formerly Faraston Seminary). Grab your Bible and your note pad and come along! Yet you characterize this as measured and fair, and mockery of it as sophmoric. Also reported on the last few nights in Opelousas (which I mispronounced at the start!